Juvenile Bipolar Research Foundation  













Not sure how to post a message? Have other questions?

JBRF's Discussion Forums

Subject: "Disciplining a bipolar toddler"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy     Email this topic to a friend    
Conferences Educational Forum Topic #6049
Reading Topic #6049
yvink025
Member since 6-21-10
5 posts
06-22-10, 03:19 PM (EST)
Click to EMail yvink025 Click to send private message to yvink025 Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
"Disciplining a bipolar toddler"
 
   Can anyone tell me what works for them? I have a 3 year old who punches me in the face, kicks, screams, bites etc. While I use the time out chair, redirection and of course talking to him about his actions (once calmed down). My confusion here begins when it seems that nothing changes. I also feel bad constantly having to reprimand him ALL day long, especially if these things are beyond his control. What am I to do? I don't want to cause harm to his emotional development and I also don't want him to think that this behavior is okay to continue, or my other children for that matter. When I do give him a consiquence for an inappropriate behavior it of course only causes a bigger explosion. Do I just let it go... I know I have to be creative and pick and choose my battles but I feel as tho every minute of every day is a battle field in my home. It is especially difficult because he is always torturing his 2 yr old brother which I feel so badly for because he is the exact oppisite and does nothing to deserve these actions. I feel so lost and helpless.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Daunnaadmin
Member since 11-20-02
371 posts
06-23-10, 10:52 AM (EST)
Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: Disciplining a bipolar toddler"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON 06-23-10 AT 10:52 AM (EST)
 

Discipline and consequences tend to be administered as punishment. There tends to be adult thinking along the lines of "the child CHOSE to do this," which presumes the child actually THOUGHT about the situation before deciding on unacceptable behavior. I don't think your son is thinking or very capable of thinking in his present state.

Most parents dole out time out with an attitude of "think about what you did so you won't make the same mistake again." Works as punishment, but doesn't help a kid whose emotional state is too agitated to calmly think and reflect. Time out might make more sense if its sole purpose is for the child to calm down; but chances are it will feel like punishment unless you accompany the child to a calm, unstimulating place and sit with him while he calms down (pat his back? have him draw a picture of how he feels?), then do something pleasurable (read a story?), and then try to process what went wrong, and figure out if amends need to be made (apology, clean up a mess, plan to fix/replace a damaged item). Of course, this is a laughable idea if you have to abandon your 2-year old to deal with the 3-year old.

You know what doesn't work, and you know what makes things worse. To avoid parental guilt, you keep doing things that don't work, and of course, what you really need is to do something different. Typical parenting classes, including those for "difficult" kids, recommend things that they promise will work, if only you'll do them right and stick to your guns. Nothing harsh will work beyond (possibly) the novelty of the first time.

The more you can help your son anticipate what's going to happen so that he isn't "surprised" by changes in activities, the calmer and more accepting he's likely to be of the change. The more you let him know before you leave the house what to expect and not expect, the better ("We're going to the grocery store. We'll get ice cream, and you may choose the flavor. We won't buy any candy, cookies, or other sweets.")

It's easy for a kid to get overloaded by all the activity and sounds going on around him. It may help to minimize your talking (quantity of words) and keep your voice calm and unemotional. Here's a website with some behavior ideas designed for kids with bipolar disorder, but they're applicable to any child, bipolar or not, who has the kind of difficulties described:   http://www.gcbf.org/information/article1.html.

Also, you might find the ideas in The Explosive Child, by Ross Greene, helpful.

Daunna Minnich
Moderator, JBRF Education Forum


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
yvink025
Member since 6-21-10
5 posts
06-23-10, 03:17 PM (EST)
Click to EMail yvink025 Click to send private message to yvink025 Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: Disciplining a bipolar toddler"
In response to message #1
 
   Is it normal than for a bipolar child to be able to remember things so well but not be able to think before punching or biting me. For ex: If I promise him that we'll go for a walk in the morning when we wake up or I will get him an icee tomorrow after dinner he will not forget when that time comes. He has an excellent memory. This is partly why my husband believes our son is just "difficult, strong- willed and stubborn". Is it also normal for the child to act a little bit more "compliant" with his father than mother and if so why? He has bitten his father but I couldn't see him punching him in the face. If for example my husband wanted to punish our son for these actions by not allowing him his 1/2 television show before bed(which is a ritual and routine for him) is this appropriate or not? It's extremely difficult to do as you stated before because without some sort of diagnosis or outside view of our home life I still feel like maybe I'm not being sturn enough, maybe I am letting him act this way. Part of this is from all I have read and heard from the daycare workers such as consistancy and identifying "triggers"...which I would like to say they could not find. He just seemed to do these things for no reason but they insisted that either he was learning this at home or from somewhere. Only after some time did they also realize there was no ryme or reason except the obvious things such as transistions, limit setting and invasion of his space. Before he was able to verbal express himself they just insisted it was because he was using actions rather than words. I don't think he even knows. I did read the Bipolar Child and the psycologist we're seeing has been in contact with the author about my son. I learned alot from the book and some I couldn't even comprehend but I did also get tons of info and have since contacted and recieved a response from one the large research hospitals however since I know this to be a lengthy process I can use any and all help I can get because some days I don't know if I can do another.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Daunnaadmin
Member since 11-20-02
371 posts
06-24-10, 09:10 AM (EST)
Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: Disciplining a bipolar toddler"
In response to message #2
 
    

  >Is it normal than for a bipolar child to be able to remember
  >things so well but not be able to think before punching or
  >biting me. For ex: If I promise him that we'll go for a
  >walk in the morning when we wake up or I will get him an
  >icee tomorrow after dinner he will not forget when that time
  >comes. He has an excellent memory. This is partly why my
  >husband believes our son is just "difficult, strong- willed
  >and stubborn".

Memory and thinking are very different brain activities. Almost all kids learn the rules and can parrot them back, so parents think the child is "forgetting" the rules or deliberately failing to follow the rules. However, knowledge and actions aren't the same. Applying knowledge (rules, in this case) to a situation, requires the child who is suddenly excited/overstimulated/startled/aggrieved, etc. to stop, analyze the situation, realize he's on the verge of hitting, remind himself not to hit and instead use words, think of the words, say the words. When your son punches, bites, etc., chances are he's reacting to a perceived threat, using the non-thinking part of his brain that responds to threats with fight-or-flight behavior. Prevention is worth a pound of cure (and punishment doesn't seem to be curing your son, right?). A few ideas:

1. Prevention: More supervision, especially around other children.

2. Prevent overstimulation/change the environment: Changing the environment refers to not just what is physically "in" the environment but everything that happens within the environment. This could mean a lot of things, such as shortening the amount of time for an activity (or taking a short break in a different & calm place for a just a few minutes, such as going to the kitchen for a drink or going to the mailbox); it might mean reducing the visual "busyness" of the room with less color, fewer objects, putting objects in a closed closet or container, having an empty wall with no visual stimulation; possibly reducing the "noise" or sounds in the room — such as no radio/TV/computer games/music in the background (or only very soft, soothing music), or playing apart from others who are talking, laughing, or reducing the amount of your own talk and/or allowing more silent pauses in your conversation.

3. Have you had your son evaluated for sensory processing disorder? Sometimes a child can be under- or over-responsive to his environment (sound, visual, touch, movement, etc.), which can result in poor behavioral regulation, high reactivity to ordinary things & happenings in his world, aggressive behavior.



   Is it also normal for the child to act a
   >little bit more "compliant" with his father than mother and
   >if so why? He has bitten his father but I couldn't see him
   >punching him in the face.

I think most kids, bipolar or not, tend to behave better with outsiders because they're a little more "on guard." Your son spends more time with you than others, including his father, so he's much more relaxed and not so watchful or careful; you're safer to be around. Another possibility for your son's better behavior around your husband is that men tend to talk less than women, tend not to sweat some of the small stuff that moms might try to control, and the lower pitch of men's voices may help keeping the child calm. (Pure speculation!)


   If for example my husband wanted
   >to punish our son for these actions by not allowing him his
   >1/2 television show before bed(which is a ritual and routine
   >for him) is this appropriate or not?

Your family values will have to guide you, but my preference would be to not to think in terms of punishment until you see that a child not only knows the rules but can consistently apply them. Punishment for WILLFULLY failing to obey rules and behave appropriately can be effective, but until you've seen your child show that he CAN regularly obey rules and behave appropriately, I wouldn't punish the child. I would talk with him about the problem when he's calm, I would ask that he apologize when he's calm and, if appropriate, clean up the mess or do a few llittle chores to "help" pay for/replace the damaged item.


   It's extremely
   >difficult to do as you stated before because without some
   >sort of diagnosis or outside view of our home life I still
   >feel like maybe I'm not being sturn enough, maybe I am
   >letting him act this way.

What child would WANT to lash out by biting and punching? Your son doesn't enjoy the feelings he has that govern his inappropriate responses. You are not LETTING him do something; you just have not found an EFFECTIVE method of changing the behavior. Being stern and disapproving and frowning and blaming him for what he doesn't know how to control will, over time, make him feel like a good-for-nothing, can't-win-for-losing failure, and then he'll get a diagnosis of Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), and most "experts" will encourage you to try sterner or other methods that may work for WILLFUL behavior, but will only made a child crazier if he lacks the ability to control his behavior. Children want to please. A "good" child will occasionally CHOOSE to "steal" an extra piece of candy or CHOOSE not to do chores or CHOOSE to punch his brother, but your son is not choosing his behavior. Choosing means willfulness, and your son is not choosing his behavior.

When what you are doing is not working, try something different.

   Part of this is from all I have
   >read and heard from the daycare workers such as consistancy
   >and identifying "triggers"...which I would like to say they
   >could not find. He just seemed to do these things for no
   >reason but they insisted that either he was learning this at
   >home or from somewhere. Only after some time did they also
   >realize there was no ryme or reason except the obvious
   >things such as transistions, limit setting and invasion of
   >his space. Before he was able to verbal express himself
   >they just insisted it was because he was using actions
   >rather than words. I don't think he even knows.

Day care workers are knowledgeable about techniques that work for your older and younger sons, and the structure of the day care environment may well help your 3 year old behave as desired better at day care than in a less structured home environment. The day care teachers have probably taken a course or two in child psychology and behavioral techniques, but remember, they are not mental health professionals — and in fact, too many mental health professionals are not very knowledgeable about kids with disorders that do not respond to standard behavior/parenting techniques. The day care teachers are wrong that your son is learning to punch or bite at home. (Did YOU teach him how to bite? — Ha! I didn't think so. You might ask them if THEY taught him to do that! Oops. You might make an enemy. Where do they think "somewhere" is — at Sunday school? From grocery store clerks? Does he watch TV shows where people bite each other? No, no, and no. Their training is not all wrong, but it doesn't account for kids who are wired differently.)

I mentioned Dr. Ross Greene & The Explosive Child. That book is a great intro to kids who misread social interactions, and he has another book that's much clearer about how to teach a kid how to interpret the things he's misunderstanding. "Lost at School" is written for teachers, but very much in layperson terms, and valuable for parents too. I think you will find these books helpful.

Your son may have bipolar disorder and/or something else. The kind of behavioral dysregulation you're seeing occurs with some, not all kids with bipolar. It occurs with some, not all kids with other disorders. So, don't fixate overly on the diagnosis. Kids with ADHD, bipolar, anxiety, autism, and other disorders can have challenging behaviors that are not attributable to willfulness or stubborness, You are wasting your time, eroding your son's self-esteem, and not helping your son by doing more of the same. Try something different.

Daunna Minnich
Moderator, JBRF Education Forum


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
yvink025
Member since 6-21-10
5 posts
06-28-10, 02:42 PM (EST)
Click to EMail yvink025 Click to send private message to yvink025 Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: Disciplining a bipolar toddler"
In response to message #3
 
   Thank you for all of your responses as they have been helpful and informational. I will definitely be reading some more books now. Thanks also for opening my mind even more with the SPD as I had never come across this before now. He has had a initial eval from early intervention in April and if they hadn't noticed his behavior and attention issues then he wouldn't have qualified for a thorough eval. Until now I hadn't realized what early intervention might be able to do for him. I did call them a few weeks back to see when we might get a visit from them and was told that they would call us in July. I feel like I take 10 steps forward and 1 step back and vice versa some days. I also feel like my brain is on overload from all of these disorders and the overlapping syptoms. I am very aware of what types of activities Kyle enjoys and do provide these things to him as often as possible. My only issue with this is that once he masters something or the "newness" of it has worn off he becomes bored leaving me searching for something else to keep him occupied. It always seems to be hands on requiring fine motor skills and usually something he views as "a mommy or daddy's job". I have always expressed to his care givers at daycare that making him my helper at home and asking him to set a good example for his brother often creates harmony unless he is raging of course. He often likes to act as a grown up, helping daddy change my brakes etc. This is great for us because we get to do things with him that he seems to really enjoy and he loves feeling needed and special. Again, thank you for all your advice and words of wisdom. While we are playing the waiting game with doctors and other services I am going to do some reading and journaling so that I am prepared. I only pray that God gives me the strength, patience and energy. Parenting is a full time job and parenting a child like mine is like working triple time. It is for certain that only parents who have these same experiences with there children can relate or understand what I mean. Lastly, are there any support groups or programs for parents of children with these types of illness? I could definitely use something.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Daunnaadmin
Member since 11-20-02
371 posts
06-28-10, 08:34 PM (EST)
Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
5. "RE: Disciplining a bipolar toddler"
In response to message #4
 
   You're right — parenting any kid is work but when your child has a mental illness, sometimes you feel like you're working alongside the child helping him him live his life — and trying to figure out how to live your own life and take care of the rest of the family as well.

You can probably find a support group through NAMI in Philadelphia or perhaps in NJ if that's closer. A larger NAMI would be more likely to have a support group for parents of children and adolescents. NAMI also has a new workshop for parents called "Basics." It's free and full of good info. See if it's being offered in your area.


Daunna Minnich
Moderator, JBRF Education Forum


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

 
Top | Home | About JBRF | About Juvenile Bipolar Disorder | Research Studies
Professional ListServs | JBRF Library | In The News | Make a Donation | Contact


 

Designed and maintained by:
flyte new media - http://www.flyte.biz
email Web Developer